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HERE IS WISDOM [message #1161] Thu, 31 March 2016 17:29 Go to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number ... the number of a man ... 666.

God does NOT state the language to be used ... He does not say ... count the number using the gematria of Hebrew, nor that of Greek, nor that of Rome.

Be aware brethren, it is not a coincidence that the original 6 "Roman" numbers I V X L C D = 666

It was a much later development that two D's were placed back to back to represent 1000 and it later became easier to write "m" for 1000.

I believe the reason God did not state the language to be used to "count the number" is that it was not in existence in the day of John of Patmos.

As a watchman on the wall, what language and numbering system have you personally used to solve this mystery? Or, have you left this to others to solve?

I believe that unstated language is English and I will provide mathematical (and biblical) evidence to support that claim, but I would like to hear the evidence and language used by others here first. And yes, I am aware of Vicarius Filli Dei, as I am an historicist.

The letter values of Hebrew are from 1-400
Those of Greek are from 1-800
ccc


Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1163 is a reply to message #1161] Thu, 31 March 2016 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mel_SDR is currently offline  Mel_SDR
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Hello canada cal

Here are a couple of links you might find interesting and useful

http://www.remnantofgod.org/666.htm

http://www.remnantofgod.org/manofsin.htm


God Bless my friend and have a nice day Smile


Your brother in Christ
Mel
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1194 is a reply to message #1163] Wed, 06 April 2016 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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As expected ... most tend to believe what their churches have taught (traditions of men) ... rather than do personal research into the various mysteries found in Revelation.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1195 is a reply to message #1161] Thu, 07 April 2016 09:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hello There is currently offline  Hello There
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Hello canada_cal,

If the language necessary to calculate 666 did not exist in the day of Patmos, then why did not God tell him so? There is no verse in the Bible that says that the language did not exist at that time. Besides, if the language to calculate 666 did not exist in those days, then God would be a God of confusion (which He is not; see 1 Corinthians 14:33), because in that case He left us no way to know for sure whose name really is 666.

When John wrote Revelation, the languages in use at the time were Latin, Greek, and Hebrew. Now, I am not sure if you checked out the links that mouse provided below, but if you did not, you will see on the 666 link that all three of these languages were used in calculating the number 666 for the pope and other things associated with him.

This is sort of like how in Revelation 8:7 John refers to "the third part of trees" "upon the earth" being burnt up. At that time John did not know of the existence of the New World; "earth" is a reference to the Roman world in this case, not the entire world. This fact allows us to determine more easily who fulfilled this prophecy, especially when we determine the other prophetic symbols (like grass; see Isaiah 40:6).


"Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God." Isaiah 50:10.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1201 is a reply to message #1195] Sat, 09 April 2016 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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Hello there, Hello There,

In that God is not of confusion, you reasoned that because HE did not state that the language was future, that it must be one of the four ... Latin Hebrew Greek ... and Aramaic ... even though there were many others in existence at that time.

In that HE is not of confusion, I reasoned ... why would HE not state the language to be used?
Therefore concluding that it must be a language in existence concurrent with that specific 666 pope.

1. So as not to waste our time, do we agree that the 666 numbered beast of Rev 13:18 is a man, and a specific pope?

2. In order to get down to good discussion, is SDR interpretation that this specific pope is past, present or future?

Thank you.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1202 is a reply to message #1201] Sat, 09 April 2016 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hello There is currently offline  Hello There
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Hello canada:

Yes, there were many other languages in existence at the time. But in the Greek and Roman world, the languages which John himself was accustomed to, the main languages were Latin, Greek, and Hebrew. For most of the history since that time, those languages have not changed. Of course, modern Greek and Hebrew are different from their versions in antiquity; but Latin, Biblical Greek, and Biblical Hebrew, have experienced little if any change since John the apostle's day.

The problem with assuming that the language to calculate 666 did not exist in John's day is twofold: 1. It makes God the God of confusion, because He never specified which language out of John's day must be used. It would thus be nigh impossible to determine the identity of Antichrist; but using the languages in existence in John's day (when the message was originally penned down) makes the task that much easier; 2. Our earthly languages change. Take the English language, for example. Before William the Conqueror invaded England and became its king, it was under the control of the Saxons. The "English" language of the Saxons was nothing like our language; it was very Germanic, and it has words, syntax, pronunciation, and letters that do not exist in Modern English. That language was called "Old English."

When William took England, England was exposed to the French language. The English language underwent fundamental change. It took in new words, like "beef," and its spelling began to change as it became Middle English. That language was the language John Wycliffe translated the Bible into so that Englishmen could read it. But even Middle English is very different from Modern English. Eventually, Middle English became Early Modern English (which, I believe, is the language the King James Bible was written in), and then Modern English. The fact that the English language changed so substantially, and lost quite a few letters (like "ash," "eth," and "thorn"), makes it unreliable to use as a system for calculating the number of "a man," whose number is 666.

1. 666 is the number of a man, that is true. But it is not the number of a specific pope; if it were, God would have said that 666 is the number of the man [to whom I refer], not "a man." Revelation 13:18.

2. The Seventh-day Remnant Church, in accordance with Bible truth, believes that the number 666 does not refer to a particular pope. Every pope is associated with those names in the "666" link mouse posted here, which equal 666 when numbered.


"Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God." Isaiah 50:10.

[Updated on: Sat, 09 April 2016 16:24]

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Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1204 is a reply to message #1202] Sat, 09 April 2016 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mouse is currently offline  mouse
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I think you mean Mel C... but I'll repost it Smile http://www.remnantofgod.org/666.htm
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1206 is a reply to message #1204] Sat, 09 April 2016 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hello There is currently offline  Hello There
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Yes, I meant Mel_C. For some reason I confused you with him.

"Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God." Isaiah 50:10.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1208 is a reply to message #1206] Sat, 09 April 2016 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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My Greek-English interlinear states:

Here wisdom is. The (one) having reason let him count the number of the beast; for (the) number of a man it is. And the number of it (is) six hundreds sixty-six.

Note that it does not refer to ... "them" ... nor "they" as that all popes are 666, nor to beasts (plural) but rather ... "a man".

Logic and reason demands an individual, specific pope to be numbered 666.

The numbered beast is ... Tom ... no, Dick ... no, Harry.

What kind of a weak identifier would this be? Well, that is what you are considering if you contemplate using Hebrew or Greek as your counting language.

The numerics of these languages are so high (1-400 and 1-800) that short names such as Tom Dick or Harry can easily number in the area of 600 and much higher.

Tom in Hebrew sums at ... 440 Sarai = 500 Seth = 700 Mr Smith = 740!

In Greek, Jude = 685 James = 833 Peter = 755 Paul = 781 Simon = 1100!

Wisdom and understanding clearly rules against Hebrew and Greek.
When 3-4-5 letters can so easily sum in the area of 600 and higher, it can hardly be considered as a satisfactory tool to be used for a conclusive numeric identification.

God has provided a prophetic numerical/letter "sign" in the Old Testament Shema pointing to Jesus as the Messiah and to the language and numerical system to be used to solve the mystery.

The rabbis do not know the meaning of this sign, but they have referred to it as ... "two witnesses".



Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1211 is a reply to message #1208] Sun, 10 April 2016 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hello There is currently offline  Hello There
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Hello canada,

If you go to that link which is posted in this forum, you will see that the languages of Greek and Hebrew, as well as Latin, testify that the Vatican (and the pope) are Antichrist.

There is no verse in the Bible which says that 666 applies only to one specific man. The verse in Revelation reads: "[666] is the number of a man." It uses the words "of a man," not to hint at a particular pope, but rather to show that, in general, that number is that of a man.

If it were so that the number applies only to one particular pope, then God is a liar. Why?

The only pope thus far whose actual name equals 666 is John Paul II. He was a more modern pope; he was born a long time after John's vision on Patmos. But earlier in Revelation it is written: "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John." Revelation 1:1. Thus if John Paul II, or some other future pope, is the particular one whose name equals 666, then Revelation contains things which did not shortly come to pass. But if the number 666 applies to all the popes (which it does), then Revelation does indeed contain things which shortly came to pass; for soon after Revelation was penned, the papacy found its beginnings. All of Revelation since that time either has been soon fulfilled, or is being fulfilled right now (e.g., the world wondering after the pope).

Paul wrote long ago: "The mystery of iniquity doth already work." 2 Thessalonians 2:7. The apostolic church was about to experience a falling away on a massive scale. "Let no man deceive you by any means," he said, "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition: who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4. Antichrist is referred to here. After the falling away of much of the apostolic church in a great apostasy, the man of sin would be revealed. Such is what happened in history. Christianity began to blend itself with paganism, and soon it was rare to find actual Christians who were not defiled by pagan doctrines, idolatry, or rituals. And who was responsible for this blending? The papacy, as the record shows (e.g. the veneration of saints, purgatory, holidays adopted from paganism [which I still struggle against; I feel like Naaman]).

"At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established." Deuteronomy 19:15. Greek, Hebrew, and Latin---three languages---all show that the pope is Antichrist. So, too, is it with the verses which I have quoted when it comes to Revelation 13:18.


"Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God." Isaiah 50:10.

[Updated on: Sun, 10 April 2016 10:10]

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Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1216 is a reply to message #1211] Mon, 11 April 2016 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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Hello there ... you said "there is no verse in the Bible which says that 666 applies only to one specific man."

Response ... there is no verse in the bible which says that all popes are 666.

You used the term "Antichrist" regarding the Vatican and the pope.
Do not confuse that term with the "numbered beast" ... all popes are antichrist ... only one is the numbered beast.

Might your watchmen have been asleep at their post? The following events have come to pass.

His name summed at 666 in a most difficult language to arrive at that sum.
He had an unusual "crown" ... he had a "bow" and, as Daniel noted, he had "arms" at his side.
He also rode a white horse.

His followers are identified by a very visible sign or mark on their RIGHT hand and forehead. This mark is not some futuristic concept.

That is the luxury of "futurism". You can predict whatever you wish ... so long as it does not come to pass, how can you be proven wrong?

The "image" of the beast has come to pass. The "false prophet" has come to pass.

I believe the next major prophetic event will be God's destruction of "Mystery Babylon ... ie Vatican City.

Perhaps then these comments will make prophetic sense to you.

Thank you for my time here ... we are at an impasse.
ccc
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1217 is a reply to message #1216] Mon, 11 April 2016 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hello There is currently offline  Hello There
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Hello canada,

You said to me, "There is no verse in the Bible which says that all popes are 666." As I showed you in my comment, the Bible would contradict itself were it true that only one pope in particular will have the number 666. "The number of the beast" is the number "of a man." Revelation 13:18. Not "the man" (referring to one man only), but "a man"--in general.

You said to me, "Do not confuse that term [Antichrist] with the 'numbered beast.'" If you read Revelation 13:1-10, you will see that it is the beast which is to persecute the saints, to have power over "all kindreds, and tongues, and nations," to be wondered after by the world, and to blaspheme God. It is the beast which is to be worshiped (verse 8). The Bible says further: "No man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." Revelation 13:17, 18. It is this same beast's number which is 666. And it is this beast which is Antichrist, for it is ruled by the "man of sin," as Paul talks about in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2.

This same beast is the one which has already been identified as the papacy, which is ruled by the pope. Therefore it has the number 666.

You said: "His name summed at 666 in a most difficult language [I am unsure which language you mean; I assume you mean Latin, because you talked about it in a past comment] to arrive at that sum." canada, if you go to that link which I keep referring to, you will see that not only Latin, but also Greek and Hebrew have identified that the titles of the pope, as well as the names for his church, equal 666 upon calculation. I must ask you how is it that, if these languages are unreliable, that all three of them have been used to calculate 666 with numerous titles that apply to the pope and his church. If it is hard to get 666 with Latin or the other languages I mentioned, then how is it that this was done multiple times, as the link shows?

You said: "He had an unusual 'crown.'" The beast has ten crowns, canada. Revelation 13:1. Not one crown.

Further: "He had a 'bow' and, as Daniel noted, he had 'arms' at his side." I believe you refer to Revelation 6:2. Revelation 6:2 does not refer to the Antichrist. It refers to Jesus Christ. The problem with assuming the rider of the white horse to be Antichrist is that the color "white" is never associated with Antichrist; it is generally associated with forgiveness (Isaiah 1:18) and righteousness (Revelation 19:8), as well as with Jesus (Revelation 1:12-15). Antichrist does not match these descriptions.

The Bible gives the identity of the rider on the white horse in Revelation 19:11-16. Compare with John 1:1 and 1 Timothy 6:14, 15. It is Jesus Christ who is described in Revelation 6 as the rider on the white horse.

You say further: "His followers are identified by a very visible sign or mark on their RIGHT hand and forehead. This mark is not some futuristic concept." They who choose the beast are to be identified by whom they worship and obey: God, or Satan's beast (and thus serving Satan), for to whom we yield ourselves servants to obey, his servants we are to whom we obey (Romans 6:16). When we obey God, His words are a sign upon our hands, and as frontlets between our eyes (that is, they are a sign on our forehead). Exodus 13:16; Deuteronomy 6:8; 11:18.

This sign is not literal. If it were, then why do we not see the aforementioned sign of God upon our hands and foreheads? This sign involves our obedience. So is it with the mark (or sign) of the beast: if we decide to be obedient to what Satan wants, then we will get his mark (the mark of the beast). For more on the mark, please see http://www.remnantofgod.org/mark.htm; this comment is already long enough.

You said: "The 'image' of the beast has come to pass. The 'false prophet' has come to pass." You are correct. For the image of the beast, please see http://www.remnantofgod.org/image.htm. For the false prophet, please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7vdg2V-B6k.

You said: "I believe the next major prophetic event will be God's destruction of 'Mystery Babylon...' i.e. Vatican City." The Vatican shall be destroyed one day, but it shall be destroyed after the mark of the beast is enforced and just before Jesus' second coming. The Vatican will suffer from the seven last plagues, as described in Revelation 16, and the earth shall mourn after the Vatican's destruction as described in Revelation 18. Then, Jesus comes.

Right now the Bible commands me to leave you alone. I pray that you both see and believe what the Bible says about this issue. If I am wrong, then I need the Bible evidence that plainly disproves my position. If the Bible does not support me right now, then I must change my beliefs. But if the Bible does not support your position, then you know what to do. So be it; amen.

--Hello There--


"Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God." Isaiah 50:10.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1218 is a reply to message #1217] Mon, 11 April 2016 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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As I noted earlier, you may (? understand my comments after God destroys Vatican City and you finally realize that your futuristic "Sunday mark" is not in effect in the land, but the biblical mark on right hand and forehead has been staring you in the face all these years.

Perhaps in time you will also understand God's purpose for His two witnesses sign to Jew and Gentile in the Shema.

It is time we leave one another.

ccc
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1219 is a reply to message #1218] Wed, 13 April 2016 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nicholas
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Sadly, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1221 is a reply to message #1219] Wed, 13 April 2016 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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"Sadly, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see."

So very true.

The Bible says the mark is on the right hand and forehead.

The priest of the harlot church places it's "mark" on the forehead of it's infants ... and it's followers are identified by making that same mark or sign with their RIGHT hand ... just as the Bible said.

But none are so blind as those who refuse to see.
They would rather believe man than what the Bible says, even though the literal visible evidence stares them in the face ... so sad.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1222 is a reply to message #1221] Wed, 13 April 2016 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nicholas
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Dear one;
You cannot use man's opinion to define Bible prophecy. (See 2Peter 1:20) That is why the Lord spoke it that way. Using LITERAL definition is very unwise and Satan's way to entrap those that refuse to study Scripture. Two men can read the same verses and get two meanings because one "hath an ear" to understand what the Lord says and the other is deaf to His prophetic voice. Truth is, using your method of interpretation means Abel's blood actually has a mouth, lips and a tongue for it is written in Genesis 4:10, "And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground." Or what of Revelation 5:6 that says, "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

Are you going to tell us what that means using literal translation?

See this video about the mark and what the BIBLE says about the mark in the FOREHEAD and in the HAND as defined by actual Bible verses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTffyq_wCK8&index=7& list=PLDOdZLtkEkrllE3Y4APVdUjfeafuQoY0X


Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1224 is a reply to message #1222] Wed, 13 April 2016 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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Some are so blind as to believe nothing in Revelation is literal ... so sad.

When God has destroyed Vatican City and your "sunday mark" is not in effect in the land ... will you still be so blind to His literal word?

The luxury of "futurism".
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1226 is a reply to message #1224] Wed, 13 April 2016 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nicholas
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If Sunday laws are a bogus interpretation, please explain why they are doing exactly as prophecy said they would? See literally thousands of articles proving they are pushing for Sunday laws globally here... http://www.remnantofgod.org/sabatak.htm

Also see this.. I have allowed the Bible to define EVERY SINGLE SYMBOL in Revelation on this page. http://www.remnantofgod.org/books/docs/REV/Revelation.htm (be forewarned, it's huge) so... please enlighten us as to how the Bible verses that prove your assumptions to be error are actually false. There are actually 327 pages for your to peruse so as to try and find one prophetic symbol that is already defined by the Bible to somehow also have a literal meaning. And please.. no more comments claiming we are wrong. I've done my homework. Please share with us your homework.


Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1228 is a reply to message #1226] Wed, 13 April 2016 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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I will be careful with my language so as not to have my post deleted as one was in the past.

I assume your scenario is as follows:

The Republicans and the Democrats are going to join forces, despite the wishes of :

1, All the Seventh Day Adventist voters, and despite
2, All the Seventh Day Remnant voters, and despite
3, All the Seventh Day Baptist voters, and despite
4, All the Jewish voters in the land, the US government is going to enact a law that all must worship on Sunday rather than the Sabbath Saturday.

If your Donald does not form a wall between your county and mine, you will be welcome to Canada, as you can bet your bottom dollar that this will not come to pass in my land.

Historicists observe biblical events after they come to pass.
Futurists make their "predictions", but I am from Missouri (via Canada)
"If" this ever did come to pass, I will gladly eat crow ... will you if it does not?

Are you bold enough to make a "time" prediction for this to come to pass?

Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1229 is a reply to message #1228] Wed, 13 April 2016 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nicholas
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First and foremost, you can assume you know what we're thinking all you like. But you're dead wrong on this one. As for me and my house we love and serve the Lord and there is no one worth voting for. In fact, since I was a teen I never bothered to vote when I became 18 because I knew even then liars are liars and cannot be trusted. I also know that everyone I know in the SDR church don't bother voting either. And please.. the claim "voting for the lesser of two evils is proper" doesn't fly with Christians. For to vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.

As for Donald Trump.. he's just as corrupt as the rest. Just because he doesn't need to kowtow to special interest groups doesn't mean he won't bow to his own flesh to do what he can to better his bottom line. Truth is we also know he's a strong advocate for torture on top of it, so why even assume real Christians would ever vote for such a man?

As for giving you a date for any prophetic event. I am a Christian. I know what my Bible says about all the false prophets that set dates. If you want to play in that arena, that is your choice. I will not.

PS.. how many times is required for me to ask you to show Bible verses to back your claims? Just curious..

PSS.. you had a post deleted for foul language? Do you not see an issue with that?

PSSS.. since you don't think Sunday Laws will ever come to fruition. Do you believe the Sabbath keeping Jews would ever agree to do it since the Bible says ALL will be commanded by Rome to do so?


Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1230 is a reply to message #1229] Wed, 13 April 2016 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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Would you please send me a private post regarding my foul language.
I am 84 and loosing some memory, but that is not my norm to engage in.

PS ... I am not impressed with predictions ... I was a futurist for ten years prior to finding the light of historicism.

The Bible associates the mark with right hand and forehead ... what could be any more clear than that?

However, if you care to spiritualize everything in Revelation, that is your option, for that is what most of "Christianity" engages in today.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1231 is a reply to message #1230] Wed, 13 April 2016 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nicholas
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...praying


Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1232 is a reply to message #1230] Wed, 13 April 2016 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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Thank you,

Instead of being adversaries, perhaps we can help one another with our findings.
Awaiting your private message.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1233 is a reply to message #1232] Thu, 14 April 2016 06:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nicholas
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you're welcome.. but I already told you I didn't see your foul language. Another admin saw it and deleted it.

Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1234 is a reply to message #1233] Fri, 15 April 2016 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mouse is currently offline  mouse
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canada cal, you believe everything in Revelation is literal? If so, then explain this...

Revelation 17:3 "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

Revelation 17:9 "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

An ANGEL of God (Rev 17:7) plainly said that the seven heads symbolizes seven mountains. Obeying 2 Peter 1:20, and Isaiah 28:10 where the Bible must be studied precept upon precept, and line upon line; if the angel said that the seven heads SYMBOLIZES seven mountains, then in context, the rest of the verse has to be SYMBOLIC, not literal. To claim against such is to declare the angel a liar and the Bible a book of lies. As we all know, that is not true.

God often speaks in pictorial symbolism[remember Jesus's parables?]... to take it as purely literal is misinterpreting God's message.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1235 is a reply to message #1234] Fri, 15 April 2016 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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mouse ... your comment was:

canada cal, you believe everything in Revelation is literal?

I am not SDR, but please do not distort my comments in order to make a point.

In my post of April 13 in this thread, I said:
"Some are so blind as to believe nothing in Revelation is literal ... so sad".

In one of my posts in the Two Witnesses thread (Jan 28) ... I clearly stated:
"Not everything in Revelation is to be understood literally."


One of my posts was removed because it was claimed that I used "foul language".
I made statements that would not jib with SDR claims, but foul language ??

I may have to keep a copy of statements I make here to avoid being accused of things I have not stated.

However ... I do believe the biblical mark is literally seen displayed by the right hand of the followers of the beast and literally placed upon the forehead of the infant followers of the great harlot church at their baptism.

When God destroys Vatican City and the sunday law is not in effect, it should become clear that I was correct about the biblical mark.

If the sunday law becomes the law of the land ... I will be proven wrong.

Accusations prior to that event waste our time.







Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1237 is a reply to message #1235] Fri, 15 April 2016 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mouse is currently offline  mouse
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Since the beast in Revelation is the catholic church.. here..

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act... And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things." H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons. Nov. 11, 1895

"Sunday is our MARK of authority. . .the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact" Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.

Now people will either choose to accept this (decision making processes happen in the front of the brain, the forehead), or will be forced to keep Sunday holy over Sabbath, in which Sunday enforcement takes place. And sunday laws is already here... look up blue laws by JFK. It's already enforced to some degree, but not completely as it will be soon.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1238 is a reply to message #1237] Fri, 15 April 2016 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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Your prediction has been noted ... you say it will be soon.

Time will reveal who is right and who is wrong.

The 144 thousands immediately follow the numbering of the beast ... they sing as it were a new song. There are 150 songs or psalms ... can you figure out who or what the 151 is?

The victors over the image, mark and number sing the Song of Moses and the Song of the Lamb. Rev 15:3

It is not a coincidence that it was peter that "counted" the 153 fish.
It is not a coincidence that this passage is noted in Rev ... 15:3

It is claimed that the Song of Moses contains the gematria of Moses name ... 345

Each pope is the "second peter" ... he is the image of the previous peter.

It is not a coincidence that our II Peter is about knowledge and false prophets ... false vatics.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1239 is a reply to message #1238] Fri, 15 April 2016 20:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mouse is currently offline  mouse
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Are you a sabbath keeper, canada cal?
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1241 is a reply to message #1238] Fri, 15 April 2016 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nicholas
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Are you Roman Catholic?

Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1242 is a reply to message #1241] Fri, 15 April 2016 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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I am an historicist interested in solving some of the mysteries of the Book of Revelation. I have been studying this book for 40 years.

Are you attempting to irritate me by asking if I am a Roman Catholic? Historicists are anti catholic.

If you want me to leave your discussion board just ask and I will leave.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1244 is a reply to message #1242] Sat, 16 April 2016 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mouse is currently offline  mouse
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These pages will help you in your study of Revelation Smile

http://remnantofgod.org/2studyproph.htm

http://remnantofgod.org/books/docs/REV/Revelation.htm
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1246 is a reply to message #1242] Sat, 16 April 2016 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SDRAmerica is currently offline  SDRAmerica
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canada cal wrote on Sat, 16 April 2016 00:44
I am an historicist interested in solving some of the mysteries of the Book of Revelation. I have been studying this book for 40 years.

Are you attempting to irritate me by asking if I am a Roman Catholic? Historicists are anti catholic.

If you want me to leave your discussion board just ask and I will leave.


I definitely don't think he was trying to irritate you asking that question. (:


Truth is truth.
www.remnantofgod.org
www.sdrministries.org
www.SDRLoudCry.weebly.com
www.youtube.com/SDRAmerica
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1247 is a reply to message #1246] Sat, 16 April 2016 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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I made it quite clear when I came to this site that I was an historicist and came to this site because they a few and far between these days.

Have you ever heard of a Roman Catholic historicist?
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1248 is a reply to message #1247] Sat, 16 April 2016 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nicholas
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You said on Friday " Each pope is the "second peter" ... he is the image of the previous peter." and so I asked if you were Roman Catholic.

Second question. What day do you call Sabbath?


Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1249 is a reply to message #1248] Sat, 16 April 2016 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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Does my day of rest correspond with God's day of rest from His original day of creation? ...I do not know, but to satisfy your question, please assume that my day of rest does not correspond with your day of rest.

Now ... can we get back to the subject of this thread?

It involved the image, mark and number of the beast. I tried to bring it closer to the original subject by noting some of God's numbers ... such as the 144 thousands and their new song, and the victors over the image, mark and number sing the Song of Moses recorded in Rev 15:3 and peter's "counting" of the 153 fish in John 21:11, even though Jesus did not specify anyone to do the counting.

By the way, the name that Jesus "added" to Simon was peter (small stone) and during biblical times, small stones were used for "counting".

It is claimed that the number (gematria) of Moses name (345) is contained within the Song of Moses and that is one of the songs of the victors over the image, mark and number.

I also noted that every pope is considered (by the Church of Rome) to be the "image" of the previous peter.

Their "peter" dies ... their "peter" comes back to life ... one of their Roman "miracles".

Regarding the question as to being a Roman Catholic ... consider that matter closed, but finding a Roman Catholic historicist is highly unlikely.
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1250 is a reply to message #1249] Sat, 16 April 2016 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hello There is currently offline  Hello There
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canada, when the Bible was originally penned down, verse numbers did not exist. That is why every time someone in the Bible quotes Scripture, he or she generally says something around the lines of, "It is written." Verse numbers (and chapters) were first used in the Bible when the Geneva Bible was published, if I remember correctly. Any similarity between the 153 fish and 15:3 is entirely coincidental, because the verse numbers are from man, not God. Not only so, but Peter's counting of the fish has nothing to do with the song of Moses that the 144,000 will sing.

"He hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God." Psalm 40:3. "Song" in prophecy can also refer to deliverance (Psalm 32:7). See http://www.remnantofgod.org/books/docs/REV/Revelation.htm#so ng for the definitions of "song." The 144,000 alone learn "a new song" (Revelation 14:3) because they are going to be delivered by the Lord in a way that no others have been or can be. They will have a unique deliverance: no plague shall come nigh their dwelling (Psalm 91:10); the weapons of their wicked persecutors shall fall from their hands to the floor, useless (Isaiah 54:17); their bread and waters shall be sure (Isaiah 33:16); and they shall see King Jesus come in all His glory, because they will not be beheaded (the wicked's weapons cannot harm them)

The Song of Moses (Exodus 15) is a song of deliverance. He sang it just after Pharaoh and his army were killed by the Red Sea crashing down upon them. Now Israel was free to conquer Canaan in a final struggle. The 144,000 shall sing this song because they "had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name." Revelation 15:2. But there was still a final struggle to go through: the wicked will try to use their armies to crush Jesus' followers (Revelation 19:19); nevertheless, just as Moses knew that God was going to bring Israel into Canaan, and that the wicked would be overcome (Exodus 15:13-17), so will the 144,000 know that they have won, and that soon they shall reign with Jesus in Heaven (and after the 1,000 years, on the new earth), where "the Lord shall reign for ever and ever." Exodus 15:18.

The 144,000 will also sing the "song of the Lamb," because they are Christians. They will be delivered from death because they have accepted Jesus, and have "the faith of Jesus." Revelation 14:12.

Yes, Jesus called Peter Cephas--"a stone." John 1:42. The reason why Jesus did this is not because small stones were used for counting, however. Jesus is the Rock. 1 Corinthians 10:4. Peter, however, was "a stone"--a rock. He was to be a part of the "foundation of the apostles and prophets" (Ephesians 2:20), but he never was the rock upon which Jesus built His church. Hence his name Cephas.

I must say that I do not understand your point about the number of Moses' name which is supposedly contained in Exodus 15. Can you please explain your point about it?

Also, Peter was never the first pope. He was the apostle to the circumcision--the Jews. Galatians 2:8. To see more about who the first pope really was, please see http://www.remnantofgod.org/pope1.htm.

Because you are apparently not Roman Catholic, could you tell us what denomination you belong to? I remember you saying once that your nephew pastors a Reformed church. Do you belong to the Reformed Church (which, if I remember correctly, is Calvinist)?


"Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God." Isaiah 50:10.

[Updated on: Sat, 16 April 2016 16:55]

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Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1251 is a reply to message #1250] Sat, 16 April 2016 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
canada cal is currently offline  canada cal
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Are you suggesting that God would not know how His book would finally be numbered?

If you cannot see an associating between God's numbers, counting the beast, peter counting the fish and the gematria (which involves counting) of Moses name being 345, I cannot help you in this matter.

I attend a Baptist church and I am a Calvinist ... but enough about me.

I am a little surprised that for students of prophecy, no one picked up on the (numerical) "sign" in the Hebrew Shema Deut 6:4

Rabbi Bochin refers to them as ... two witnesses.

No I am not Roman Catholic and because I mention a rabbi ... please don't consider that I may be a Jew.

I may not be the brightest bulb in the socket, but I have good genes.
I am a son of Mary David and Joseph ... he was a carpenter
Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1252 is a reply to message #1249] Sat, 16 April 2016 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nicholas
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What day do you call Sabbath?

Re: HERE IS WISDOM [message #1253 is a reply to message #1251] Sat, 16 April 2016 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Nicholas
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numerology allows for a multitude of definitions to the same prophecy and is associated with witchcraft. This is why students of prophecy do not delve into such things. The Holy Spirit prevents us. So please, put it down and seek that which the Bible says about the 'number of his name.'

Since you admit you're a Baptist, I then understand you keep Sunday holy and therefore ask you to show me from the Bible wherein God changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first.


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